Round Table with the Knights of Le Mans

Gary Watkins asks the questions to Audi LMP1 ace and 1998 winner Allan McNish; Lola LMP2 driver and 2005 class winner Warren Hughes; Aston Martin GT1 star and 1991 Le Mans victor Johnny Herbert; and Risi Ferrari GT2 racer Johnny Mowlem.

Q: Does it feel good to be back? Do you get a sense of expectation as you drive into Le Mans?

Allan McNish: When I drove in last night and you see the sign Le Mans, immediately as you cross that point, you're into the town and into the whole sort of emotion, the feeling and the history.

Johnny Mowlem: And you start looking out for the Gendarmes immediately! Well, I do."

Q: So have you been fined yet?

Mowlem: Not yet..."

Q: So do you get a sense of expectation?

McNish: "You do when you drive into the circuit, no question. You come in off the motorway, you see the grandstands and then you come in under the tunnel, then you're here.

"For me, you know that all the work and testing you have done is actually coming to something. Instead of all the talk, you're here to do the job. This is where it starts - and that starts to build the adrenaline. The time is fast approaching when we'll find out whether we're good enough.""

Q: Is there a sense of excitement for you, Warren?

Warren Hughes: "Definitely. You see Le Mans and you are well aware of the history of it. However, I wasn't aware of the history until the first time I'd done it. I'd read about it, but I really didn't have a sense of the occasion until I did it for the first time.

"On race day, you feel the atmosphere and realise it's a special event that is out of the ordinary. That has stayed with me since the first time, and I love coming here now. It is the jewel in the crown, no doubt about it.

"But from my point of view there is a little bit of... apprehension is the wrong word, but I'm with a team I was only with last year so there are a lot of things I have to get familiar with. So that's the sort of thing on my mind at the moment. The guys with their regular teams probably won't have that mindset."

Q: It's been a while for you, Johnny. Did it feel strange coming back?

Johnny Herbert: "It did because it's changed. I was trying to go through gates you can't now go through which was disconcerting. But coming back here is nice, because as we were saying it's a race that still holds its prestige.

"It's a different class, but the class is still a tough one. Allan's got the Peugeots, I've got the Corvette and the Saleen maybe, and these guys are going to have equal competition."

Mowlem: "Especially this year. It seems to be stronger in every class."

Hughes: "I'd go along with that, the goal posts have moved."

Q: But for Audi it is the highlight of their year, isn't it? The whole programme is built around Le Mans. Do you feel that as a driver, Allan?

McNish: "I think for everybody, it doesn't matter who you are racing for, this is the one you focus on. The other races, whether we like to admit it or not, are only to get you between Le Mans.

"You do feel that, you feel the pressure building, the fact that the board fly in for this race and not necessarily every other one. And there's the knowledge that you have got to come back with success because as much as we know what Le Mans is about, that anything can happen and you have to have reliability, every car is here to win.

"But it depends a little bit as well what you categorise as winning, winning your class or winning overall, but it might actually be just getting on to the podium if you don't necessarily think you are prepared enough if it's a new package."

Q: As you said Warren, you read about Le Mans but you don't really know what it means until you get here. Did you feel that, Johnny?

Mowlem: "Yes, I was the same. I think even Allan said that after he came here for the first time in 1997, and then realising in 1998 when he won what it can do for you. I was the same in 2000. I came here and was fortunate enough to finish second in GT and got on the podium, and just thought 'that was easy'.

"Then the following year when it was raining in 2001 and I had all that driving at night, and aquaplaning, I went through hell basically. At seven in the morning I realised, as it was getting light and the rain had stopped, that nothing that Le Mans could throw at me could be worse than what I had just experienced. And then about 10 minutes later the engine blew up. That's when I realised that Le Mans is bigger than anything else, bigger than any single person, event, manufacturer or whatever.

"In a way you feel humbled to be a part of it. When you drive in it's almost like being sucked in to a piece of history, and you are privileged to be here. Last year when I was driving here I actually began to really get to know it. It took me three or four years, and of course everything has changed this year.

"They have changed the way in, you have to walk miles from the car park and so on. But even having done it three or four times you are still learning where you have to be at what time, the parades and all the rest of it. It's a huge week and if you are not careful it can completely drain you mentally. You can get to the race and be shot."

Q: Because it is such a long time and you have the night qualifying as well, I guess.

Mowlem: But the atmosphere does sap you."

Q: Is that right?

McNish: "It's emotionally draining, not physically. I don't find this race physically demanding at all because we do all the endurance training and everything for it. But emotionally it is so hard to prepare for because you are here a week, basically in the one area with the same group of people who are all trying to beat you.

"You've got the late testing at night, you've got all the meetings, the training and other things that go on behind the scenes. It's the silly things like getting to the parade. You think it's 10 minutes, but it's not, it's an hour and a half because of the traffic.

"And it's getting back from the parade and you find you are eating dinner at 9:30 pm. Then the next morning you've got the warm-up at 8:00 am. So by the time the race starts at 4:00 pm Saturday afternoon you are running fully on adrenaline..."

Q: 3:00 pm this year, mate!

McNish: "I might not be starting, so it doesn't matter! Well, I won't be starting if I turn up at 4:00 pm! But it is so emotionally tiring, much more than anything I have ever done. Formula One in that respect is simple in comparison."

Q: Is there anything you don't like about it?

Mowlem: "That it's drawn out so long. You have to be here Sunday night for Monday or Tuesday scrutineering, then you've got all day Wednesday doing nothing, then Wednesday and Thursday night qualifying, then Friday you've got all your sponsors around. By the time Saturday comes I'm just itching to get in the car.

"But the one thing I would change is that they have the warm-up at 8:00 am and the start not until 3:00 pm in the afternoon."

Q: But if you had a problem, you probably would like it that way!

McNish: "We've had problems in the past. Last year we just made it on to the grid, it was touch and go about actually starting from the pitlane. So I know from experience that starting from the pitlane is not a disaster, but when you are on pole you want to maintain it. But I don't like the 6:00 am get-up in the morning either."

Mowlem: "And for the mechanics, everyone thinks it's a 24-hour race, but for them it's 48 hours before they get a rest."

McNish: "It's more, it's like 72 for them. And we've got physios and masseurs."

Mowlem: "It's tough, but that's what it's all about. If it was made easy then it would take away some of the mystique."

McNish: "The one thing I've realised, since I first came here in 1997, is how hard Le Mans really is. You have to beat Le Mans before you beat any of the opposition. You have to react to all the things it throws at you, from being tired before the start to the punctures, to everything else. That will come at you whether you like it or not and you have got to react to it. The first thing is to beat the circuit."

Mowlem: "When you first arrive you think that if you get yourself all sorted, the team is on top of its game and that if you work every possible eventuality out you are going to be alright, and you're going to win Le Mans. Then you do it a few times and you realise that you can have absolutely everything right and it doesn't make any difference. It can still catch you out."

Q: Did you feel that, Warren? When you first came with MG, OK, the cars didn't finish but there was quite a high because the cars ran really quickly in the top three or four. Did you feel 'this is easy'?

Hughes: "No, what it did, being able to mix it with the factory Audis in 2002, was make you realise what a big stage you are playing on. That hit home when I made my first pitstop. I think we were running fourth at the time and I could see as I came up to the pit box there was a real gaggle, a massive crowd of people where I was going to pull in. I thought what's going on up there.

"And it was only when I stopped, suddenly they all swarmed around. You think 'Christ, I'm part of something special'. That was the first thing that really brought it home. It's hard to describe it really.

"Even though I won Le Mans, the LMP2 class in 2005 with RML, the real high didn't feel as high as running that high up the order. It was a buzz. It was fantastically satisfying to win the category, but that ultimate high is like a longer high."

Q: You are talking about not being prepared for the size of the event. Are you prepared for the size of the circuit. It is completely different to anything else. Is it a culture shock?

Mowlem: "I love the circuit. They keep changing it every year, but when you take the car out you think, oh I forgot the car moves around so much here, like on the Mulsanne straight with the tramlines from the lorries.

"The little things on your first couple of laps, even though I've done it a few times, you think I'd forgotten about that. Then you instantly remember and it's nothing new. You just get back into it. It's quite exhilarating to drive around, but it's not physically hard. Not like Sebring, which knocks seven bells out of me. But mentally it is so tough because there are so many places that are high-speed entry.

"You've got to have your wits about you. You don't realise sometimes when you are in the race and you are doing a double or something, your concentration levels might have dropped and you are not aware of it. That's when this place can catch you out.

"I remember when I first came here, Allan said to me 'the one place you have got to be careful is the exit of the Porsche Curves'. It's funny that every single time, I think 'be careful here' even though I'm focused on what I am doing. Every single lap I do. And it's funny that a track can do that because normally you just drive."

McNish: "You've got to keep your respect for the place. The one for me that is always very tricky is braking into Arnage, especially when you are on a qually lap because you've stonked through Indianapolis and you feel like you've braked an inch later, you've locked up and you feel like you're careering towards that tyre wall - and you can't get out of it.

"That corner I hate. I generally think I'll brake a bit earlier there, even on a qually lap, because it really penalises you if you make a tiny error."

Q: Is it daunting when you first go out?

Hughes: "It was the first time in 2001, with the MG. The sheer speed, as Johnny says the undulations of the circuit. You can't keep it in a straight line. That was the MG in its very raw and early stages. It had no power steering and it had massive wind buffeting..."

McNish: "Sounds fun!"

Hughes: "Yeah, as you can imagine. We didn't go that far that year. We were all pretty drained when we got through the night, and it was better in 2002. But those first early laps, the shock to the system, that never happens again."

McNish: "I've got to be honest, I found it a wee bit different. The first laps scared the hell out of me because the car moved around so much. You came into Mulsanne and I remember you had to brake before the tramlines, and it was always dancing when you are coming in there at 200 mph plus.

"Since then, with more downforce and everything else, the braking for Mulsanne is more easy. But then you charge into the Porsche Curves and it's the commitment where the road suddenly narrows as it goes left, that's where you think on your first laps 'Christ, this is fast'. Whereas before the Porsche Curves were so much slower that it actually seemed acceptably frightening! That was in the GT1.

"The straight-line speed hasn't changed much, it's more the braking and cornering that has increased, plus the tyres and aero. Every time when I go out I think this is a complete re-evaluation of what speed is about."

Q: Do you ever stop learning here? Do you keep on picking up little tricks?

Mowlem: "I don't know about little tricks, but the more comfortable you get with the track the quicker you find your rhythm. It's a long lap, but it's amazing how you do find a rhythm. Once you do, it really helps. It's difficult because at the test day if you come away having done nine or 10 timed laps, you'll probably be lucky because it's such a long lap. An out lap can be 12 or 13 minutes."

Q: Do you find that is enough to get you back into the rhythm for the race, or do you not really get into it until you are in the race?

Mowlem: "I feel I don't really get into it until I am in the race."

McNish: "For me, for qualifying, for example, you're not in the rhythm. You're just going over any limit you've achieved before with the knowledge that if something does snap out of line, you've got to sort it out. So from that point of view, I agree with Johnny: the first time you are in the rhythm is at the end of the second stint."

Mowlem: "Then you relax a bit. It's always the case in any long race that the second stint is easier. In the first you are always apprehensive, especially if you are starting the race. You just want to bring it back."

McNish: "Have you ever sat when you've started and felt your heartbeat here [points to his ear]?"

Mowlem: "I can normally feel it in my throat!"

McNish: "It's funny but this is the one place where I've sat on the grid and you can feel it going boom, boom in you ear. It reminds me of the film [Le Mans], when they've got the hearbeat. And you get all those memories of watching the film from when you were about six years old."

Q: Would you put it up there in your top five circuits around the world? Allan, you've done Macau, for example.

McNish: "I don't rate Macau that highly, actually. Probably the $20,000 fine I got at the end of it that did it!"

Q: What about you, Johnny?

Herbert: "I would, yeah. I have to admit when I first came I didn't like the place. But I didn't like the cars. I was being spoilt with F1, and in those days sportscars were a bit clunky. When I came back with the Audi it was just another world. They are actually nice. To be honest I would imagine the GT1 is probably not that bad..."

Q: You always seemed a bit nonplussed by doing Le Mans back then. Was that just because you were in F1 and you've got to be focused on that and it was almost an aside?

Herbert: "Probably, to be honest, the original reason was for pocket money."

McNish: "Christ, you must have been earning some money if that was pocket money."

Mowlem: "He should know, he's Scottish!"

Herbert: "It was an earner! But the Mazda was an underdog anyway, I wasn't expecting to do so well. It was a case of right place, right time."

Mowlem: "I'd definitely put Le Mans in my top five. I mean, I love Monaco for totally different reasons. Somewhere like Monaco, there's no cheating there. If someone comes in at Monza and they've gone a second quicker you wonder how much kerb they took or have they straightlined a chicane. When you've done a lap at Monaco you've done a lap.

"To some extent here it's the same, even though they had the whole white line fiasco a couple of years ago. When you first start testing and to a lesser extent on the Wednesday (qualifying), the track is going to be so dusty and dirty. You can hear all the dust tinkling along in the wheel arches."

McNish: "That's the time you get punctures, invariably on first runs. Every time I have been here one of the cars has had a puncture in the first 15 minutes. It's not picking up nails or anything like that, it's just that everything is new and the kerbs are a bit sharp, and everything is still a bit dirty. And if you are doing 200 mph anything touching the tyres is going to have a massive effect."

Q: Do you have a favourite part?

McNish: "The podium!"

Q: Can you remember it!?

McNish: "For the record, I am now smacking Gary in the face!"

Mowlem: "I would say the entry to the Porsche Curves. I'm sure I hold my breath through there every time."

Herbert: "I've always liked the Porsche Curves, too."

Mowlem: "In a GT1 car you'll like the entry but not the rest of it."

Herbert: "I'm sure it's going to be more nasty! I know it will be different."

McNish: "I like Indy, the right-hander. And then trying to get the car stabilised to turn left."

Hughes: "I'd agree with that."

McNish: "It's a big, big balls corner."

Mowlem: "Indy in a GT car is not so much fun as in a prototype, but you go in there and it's such a tank slapper just to get the thing stopped for the left."

McNish: "Yes, that was what it was like in the 911 GT1. That whole movement side of it I didn't like."

Mowlem: "But the Porsche Curves, even in a GT car, it just flows."

McNish: "But they are all great corners. Even the chicanes."

Hughes: "Yeah, the flow of the chicanes. The key is to not knock down the car too much. It's got a nice rhythm to it."

Mowlem: "They're not really chicanes, they're like esses."

Hughes: "Even though Arnage is a difficult corner, as Allan said earlier on, it's easy to attack it a little too much, in the race it grips up massively. Suddenly your minimum speeds are much higher."

McNish: "That's something, the circuit evolves through the course of the week and the course of the race so much. The way you do things at the beginning and the way you do things at the end are completely different, more than for every other track."

Q: The Mulsanne straight: Do you regret that you didn't get a go on it without chicanes?

McNish: "No."

Mowlem: "I do. I remember the very first time I came here there were two things that impressed me. There was a guy called Henri. You always hire a Frenchman to deal with the ACO and so on. He took us out and showed us round the track.

"We came to the Porsche Curves and he said 'in my day we didn't turn right here, we went straight.' I said, 'obviously it was a different road,' and he said, 'no, it was the same one.' And it narrows down and there is a little bridge. He said 'we got through there flat and we go over the little bridge and we get airborne.'

"This is like 1961 or 1962. And I remember thinking that was when men were men. Part of me regrets, because I like that sort of thing - but saying that, if I had I probably wouldn't be sitting here talking to you now!"

McNish: "I've got no desire. To me, you are approaching the chicanes at such a speed now anyway that the desire to increase that for a long period and go through the kink and arrive at Mulsanne, or coming through the old bit at Maison Blanche is terrifying. I'm five foot five, I don't want to be five foot nothing. That's what would happen if you went off."

Hughes: "The length of the straight doesn't bother me. The way they are now, they're more than adequate! Quick enough! But it's still by far the fastest circuit I've ever been to. I don't need any more of a buzz. It's probably made it a bit more interesting as well because you've got two more very big braking areas."

Herbert: "Well, I would have loved to have a go, yeah, just to see what it would have liked, and whether I would have parked up where the last chicane is at the moment!"

Q: Johnny, when you won Le Mans with Mazda in 1991, was it not a big thing for you? You've said you probably didn't appreciate it at the time.

Herbert: "No, it's because I don't remember it! I was in the medical centre."

McNish: "What happened there?"

Herbert: "It was because I did 23 hours! No, I just hadn't taken on any fluids. I used to do Le Mans completely wrong anyway. I used to get up at 8am and go to bed early at about 12. I'd probably already done a couple of stints. That completely screwed me. I couldn't shut off, I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't drink."

McNish: "But can anybody do it correctly when they first come here? I know I didn't."

Herbert: "No, probably not."

Q: So what is the correct way, then?

McNish: "It's different for different people. I was lucky I had Bob Wollek in the team. I watched what he did. Bob got out of the car, lazily pulled his overalls off, wandered off, spoke to the engineers as he was walking out, and went and sat down, had a shower, came in and had his lunch and dinner, when straight for a massage, didn't stop to speak to anybody - which I thought was very rude of him - but basically he just shut himself off from everything that was going on.

"The first time I came here I sat in the garage watching the car through every corner. Everything Laurent [Aiello] and Stephane [Ortelli] did, I was in the car with them. That's tiring. And you don't realise the noise either."

Q: Yes, that does tire you, doesn't it?

Mowlem: "Especially when the Panozes were going round. I used to think I wish those things would break down, no disrespect to Brabs [David Brabham] and [Jan] Magnussen."

Q: It must have been the same for you in the Mazda, Johnny?

Herbert: "I do remember going back to the caravan, and listening to hear if it was still going, and then not being able to switch off. I think there were three of them and I'd say to myself 'no, that one's not mine, that one is.'"

Mowlem: "If someone's doing a double in your GT car and there's three of you, you're out of the car for four to five hours. People say well, that's great. But by the time you get out, have a short debrief, get changed, get some fluids down you, have something to eat, get a massage, then you've got to be back on standby an hour before you are due back in in case there is a yellow or the guy has a cramps up or something.

"That only gives you an hour and a half, two hours tops to go to sleep. And you can't just get your head down and go to sleep, as Johnny says. It's so diffcult to switch off."

McNish: "Some people are good at it."

Mowlem: "I've found you don't have to sleep. Just lie on the bed, close your eyes and listen to some music. Just whatever to get relaxed."

Hughes: "You're just trying to detach yourself from everything and the noise makes that difficult. You're desperate just to find somewhere quiet to pull the shutters down."

McNish: "Find somehwhere cool as well because our cabins get bloody hot. They're not air conditioned and if it's a hot night you just sweat like hell and it's uncomfortable."

Mowlem: "There's always a moment at three in the morning or whatever when they come to wake you up and I absolutely loath the place. I hate it. I don't want to be out there, I don't want to be here, I question my own sanity, why am I putting myself through this?"

Herbert:" You're grumpy in the morning, you are!"

Mowlem: "The funny thing is if something were to happen like your car was to blow up that would be the worst thing in the world. And the minute it's over you want to come back again, it's strange. You have to be a little bit of a sadomasochist to do this."

McNish: [Speaking slowly into the Dictaphone] "Johnny went to university!"

Q: How much sleep do you think you get during a race?

McNish: "You don't get sleep, you just get rests."

Hughes: "Cat-naps!"

Mowlem: "I think if you added it all up and it came to two hours total you would be surprised."

McNish: "In 1998 we won, then the next year we were leading when at 3:30 am in the morning Thierry [Boutsen] had his incident. Initially I knew the car was out because you could see the pictures. It was obvious it was out, but we didn't know he was injured at all. I just felt like my world was falling apart.

"I felt like that for about 15 minutes and then you sort of pick yourself up and after that we realised Thierry was actually quite seriously injured, and it changed the situation quite a lot. Initially it was the most devastating thing I'd gone through, it was horrible."

Mowlem: "If something goes wrong to put your car way back in the order relatively early in the race, I remember it happening to Allan one time and I had to smack him about a bit and say, 'look, there's a long way to go'. You do get demotivated.

"Like the year we finished second, after half an hour David Murry had an unfortunate incident at the Porsche Curves and backed it in there. We were dead last after an hour and half of the race, so you can't give up with this place."

Hughes: "We won the Le Mans 21-hour race in 2005 with RML in the LMP2 class because we literally spent three hours in the pits. I remember Tommy pitting on the first lap with overheating problems and sometimes you do think I wish this thing would bloody die."

Q: Do you actually think that?

Hughes: "Yes, you just want to be put out of your misery. You feel that you have still got a massive amount of effort to put in, and you're not going to get anything out of it."

McNish: "You miserable sod!"

Hughes: "I know! I didn't share that with anybody until afterwards, but that is how I felt inside."

Q: Have you ever gone out early, Johnny?

Herbert: "Yeah, in 1990. I went straight over to the fair to have a look."

Q: Has anyone else done that?

All: "No."

Mowlem: "The closest I got to it was in 2003 and we were leading and it blew up. I had to walk back having been offered vodka, wine, schnapps by all the marshals. So I had all of them and some bread and cheese, and then I had to walk back through everything. And I walked past the funfair. I think that was the year Audi had Jamiroquai playing."

Herbert: "I remember the biggest breasts in the world there."

Hughes: "That was a sideshow was it?"

Herbert: "She was all on her own!"

Q: If you've been away to sleep and you come back to the garage and find you've had a problem and the car has fallen of maybe the first page of the timing screens, that must be tough.

Hughes: "It'a punch in the stomach, aye."

McNish: "Can you imagine what it's like for the guys who are working on it, though?"

Herbert: "Well everyone forgets them, but they're the guys who literally don't go to sleep. So they have down times as well, and they can't make mistakes. It's difficult enough as it is when you are awake."

Q: Being in the car at the end, is it really emotional?

Mowlem: "It's just relief that it's over and that we are getting to the line."

Herbert: "It's better now. In the old days it was 4 o'clock, wherever you were out on the circuit. When I won we were way out the back somewhere."

McNish: "You knew you'd won a lap and a half beforehand. So you had all that time looking around and wondering what you were going to have for tea."

Herbert: "I never saw the chequer. The crowd was all over the track and we just pulled in."

Mowlem: "Allan, do you remember that year I finished we actually took our podium on the last lap. [Fabio] Babini was banging in to the other car and broke his wheel, and we came through to finish third."

McNish: "That was really funny because we were coming through the Porsche Curves in half formation and everyone was backed up. Then these GT cars, one came past us on the grass. I got on the radio saying 'what are these idiots up to?' I didn't realise they were still racing for position. I got up into the area before you get on the podium and Johnny comes up. I said 'what the hell are you doing here?'"

Mowlem: "You were gutted because you finished second. Once you win, anything else is almost like..."

McNish: "But you come here to win and if you finish second you know you are close. The reality is the whole thing wasn't right on the day and it's a whole year to come back."

Q: You finished second three years in a row, Johnny. You said to me at the time you would have been really pissed off had you not won it back in 1991. Do you think having that one under your belt makes the difference?

Herbert: "One is always special. It's nice to get more, it's nice to be greedy like Tom [Kristensen]. But one is great and it is a historic thing anyway. For me it's nice because it was Mazda and it's the only Japanese make to have done it."

Q: Is finishing second gutting here?

Herbert: "It is, yeah. I knew I had given it all and done a good job, but it was down to circumstances."

Mowlem: "In every race there's a bit of that. You can win sometimes, but feel that you could have done a better job. It kind of tarnishes the win a little bit.

"And then are other times when you know you were bloody brilliant, but you might have had a dreadful result. But as Johnny said, in your heart of hearts you might be satisfied with the job you did, so there's always two levels and the second one is more important for a driver."

McNish: "Yeah, but the second one is what you cling on to as you are going home, how you rationalise it and put it behind you to move forward. The first time I came here there were three Portuguese brothers in a GT car and they were bankers or something.

"They finished by bizarre coincidences third and ended up on the podium. To see those guys achieve something they thought in their whole world they could never achieve was a good indication of what Le Mans is all about. It gave me a different side to the place."

Mowlem: "You only have to talk to someone in the street. If it's not F1, most people don't know. But if you say 'Le Mans 24 Hours' instantly they can identify with what you do. It's a household-name race. How many other sportscar races can say the same?"

McNish: "How many sporting events have had a film made about them?"

Q: Did you find it easier than you thought it would be because you both won in your second year, Johnny and Allan?

McNish: "Yeah, that was just talent!"

Mowlem: "I finished second in my first year, and I didn't finish again until last year. I don't think I got within seven hours of the finish until last year. I've only finished twice."

McNish: "I don't think you do appreciate it if you do have success early. It seems easier than the reality is, and it's only when you have had a bad race that you start to understand."

Q: Was that the same for you in 1991, Johnny?

Herbert: "Yeah, I don't think I appreciated it. I left and it was on to the next GP. For me it was a little bit different because I felt it proved to other people that I had no problems with my feet."

Mowlem: "It was huge for you though, Allan."

McNish: "It changed my career."

Mowlem: "We were good friends..."

McNish: "we aren't any longer!"

Mowlem: "...and we went to Goodwood with him having been the previous year and noticing the difference about how people were treating him after he'd won Le Mans. That in a way led to you getting into GPs."

McNish: "Just a month after that, opportunities arose that wouldn't have come up if I hadn't won Le Mans. Suddenly the doors opened and people think of you in a totally different light. It's like Dario winning the 500 that will change him in so many people's eyes."

Q: You've won three Formula One Grands Prix, Johnny; is it up there with those?

Herbert: "Yeah. If you named the big races you've got Monaco, Le Mans, Indy and that's really it."

McNish: "Daytona if you're a NASCAR guy, but probably not the 24 hours."

Herbert: "You come here and you can feel it. It's still prestigious, and you have to give credit to the ACO for that. They could have lost it. Otherwise it could have been just another race."

McNish: "They are very French about it."

Herbert: "You had people like Mario Andretti trying to come back here to win. He didn't come back to anywhere else."

McNish: "That's why Jacques [Villeneuve] is here. To make history it requires coming to Le Mans, something that still stands up. And the manufacturers are coming back, Honda and probably other German manufacturers too."

Q: There is a sense of relief at the end of the race, there must be.

McNish: "There's a sense of relief if you've had success, there's not if you haven't."

Mowlem: "There's also a big low. Allan and I have got in a car had driven home after the race, twice."

Hughes: "It might be different from Allan's perspective, but from the other categories' perspective the thing is the norm is not to finish. I've finished once in four attempts and if you do finish the chances are you'll get a bloody good result."

Q: Well in LMP2, you win!

Hughes: "The normal thing to come away from the race is to feel dejected and downbeat."

Mowlem: "Allan had been second overall and I had been second in class. We sat in the hotel lounge and said, 'ok, let's go home.' It was 7 or 8pm, and we just went. All the tension and relief floods out even if you had a good result, you've had the euphoria of the podium which lasts about half an hour, and literally it's like falling off the edge of a cliff. I guess like the down after a drug or something."

McNish: "It takes me four or five days to get me back to semi-normal afterwards. And that's energy levels and everything else. In 1999 I'd organised a fitness training thing starting on the Tuesday after the race, and I was absolutely crap.

"I didn't want to be there, I had no energy and was so lethargic. It was a disaster. Now for four days I absolutely do nothing, just to try and get back to being me again. It takes so much out of you."

Q: Talking about the classes, what do you want from Johnny and Warren when you come up to lap them?

McNish: "I want them to do exactly what they do every single lap."

Hughes: "You haven't seen us drive yet!"

Mowlem: "But this so-and-so had me off at Silverstone and I was doing everything I'd been doing every single lap!"

McNish: "I don't forget. In 2000 I came up to lap him and he put me into the pitwall at Silverstone. So when I came up to him in 2004, he was just entering the fast part of Becketts, and I thought right, I'm coming down the inside. I thought he'd seen me."

Mowlem: "I had seen him but he was too far back to even attempt to come through!"

McNish: "I was coming through. I got up on the kerb on the left and saw him backing off and just as I went right, we hit. I kept my head down because of the verbal abuse I was going to get. But the worst thing to happen when you come up to lap someone is for them to try and help you, because you are not expecting it

"It's one in ten that that happens. Especially somewhere like the Porsche Curves, you've made your commitment to overtake and if they change direction at the last moment you've got no chance."

Mowlem: "One of the worst places for me, and Warren and Johnny will find out, there's a silly little right-left kink after the Porsche Curves. If you are catching someone though there and you've got a prototype coming up behind you it's actually very difficult to go through there flat without taking a very straight line, and the prototype is desperate not to wait for you because you'll lose two seconds. That is the one of the worst places on the track."

Q: So what do you want from the prototypes?

Mowlem: "Just don't hit me. Don't bloody hit me. If you don't hit me I'll be alright because I'll make sure of it."

McNish: "You get used to who is in the cars and which cars are tricky and which cars aren't. It's such a long race you do get an idea. In some respects when it gets to five or six in the morning many of the cars are out and it does become a little bit easier. The first few hours when you come up to the traffic are generally ok because the professionals are still in, but after that..."

Mowlem: "In a GT car you can judge when he is not going to catch you to dive down the inside. Quite often if I've got a prototype there and he is a little further back, I'll cover the inside. I don't want him down my inside, and they hate that.

"[Emmanuele] Pirro will come past you and shake his fist, but I know they have the might of Audi behind them but I've got just as much right to be there as he has. I've experienced it on both sides, but if you give them the space we'll go through side-by-side and we'll both lose two seconds. If he follows me he'll lose half a second and then we'll just get on with it. Some prototype drivers are good at that, others aren't so good."

Hughes: "The indecision and not being clear what is happening, that's when problems are going to occur. As Johnny says, I did GT2 in the last couple of years and you learn what to do when a quick car comes up. You can subtly signal your intentions by turning in a little bit earlier than you would normally."

Q: Johnny, do you have a sense of foreboding because the boot is on the other foot for you this year?

Herbert: "I hold my line! I used to hate that. Holding your line is fine but there were a lot of guys who just don't look. Probably less here and more in the ALMS, and that used to annoy the hell out of me. For me the biggest thing in the mirrors of an LMP1, if you see another LMP1 it's going the same speed. It doesn't close. So I'm going to use my mirrors a hell of a lot more. Probably in the daylight I'll get away with it but in the dark that's when it's going to be hard to judge closing speeds."

Mowlem: "And you get white-out as well when your windshield is dirty. You stop being able to see where you're going as well as not being able to see behind you. You know someone is behind you because it goes completely white but you can't know which side they are going."

McNish: "That explains a lot! I would hate to do that because you're going as fast you can, but having to look behind you to see what is attacking you. At least in the prototype you're looking forward and you're going forward, and unless you are racing for position you never think what's behind you."

Mowlem: "In a GT car you drive on your mirrors and you have to otherwise you're not going to last."

McNish: "There's different things for different classes, and it gets back to what is special about this race. People are looking for different achievements."

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