Interview with Nick Fry on the spy affair

This revelation suggested the whole affair might not be about attempts to transfer confidential Ferrari information to McLaren but rather, perhaps, an attempt by Stepney and Coughlan to take a 'dream team' package to Honda.

Of course, one big question was left hanging in the air. If this was indeed the case, why had Honda waited so long before making these facts known?

Three whole days had passed since the initial announcement on Tuesday afternoon that a McLaren employee had been suspended, and for three whole days the world at large had little choice but to assume that any information that Coughlan had allegedly received was for the purpose of benefiting McLaren and therefore, presumably, his own standing within the company.

An earlier announcement from Honda could have possibly limited the initial damage caused to McLaren. However, Fry was travelling to and from Japan on Honda business as the story broke, so his first contact with McLaren on the matter was not until Thursday, when he called McLaren F1 CEO and his personal friend Martin Whitmarsh.

However, Fry's first contact with Ferrari did not come until 1:00 pm on Friday, when he spoke to Jean Todt and Ron Dennis at the end of a Formula One team principals meeting on other matters.

It was several hours later, after Dennis had made it clear in a regularly scheduled FIA press conference that a third team was involved, that Honda put out a public statement.

Honda's press release was very carefully worded. "Earlier this year Nigel Stepney, formerly of Scuderia Ferrari, requested a meeting with Nick Fry and brought with him Mike Coughlan of McLaren, with a view to investigating job opportunities within the Honda Racing F1 team.

"Honda would like to stress that at no point during the meeting was any confidential information offered or received. Nick Fry informed Jean Todt and Ron Dennis of the meeting and has offered to provide any information required by Ferrari and McLaren."

The timing of informing Todt and Dennis was not specified, while intriguingly, none of the official documentation from Ferrari or McLaren to this point had actually named Coughlan.

Sources close to Ferrari have made it clear that the management was not impressed by Honda's slow response. The feeling at Maranello is apparently that Fry should even have contacted Todt and Dennis as soon as Stepney and Coughlan appeared together, as this twin approach was a 'strange' situation.

To be fair to Fry, that idea seems a little far fetched, because teams have contacts with other people's employees all the time - confidentiality is a two-way street, and if someone sounds you out about job opportunities, you don't go telling their current boss.

However, the story did change as of Tuesday, especially as it became a legal matter. At that stage Fry and Honda clearly did have an opportunity to clarify matters with McLaren and Ferrari.

Of course, the priority of team bosses is to look after the interests of their companies, and it could be argued that everyone would have done the same in Fry's position - explore all avenues that might benefit the team and not get involved when other people's dirty washing is done in public.

But at team principal level, there can be a surprising degree of respect and trust when the big picture is being discussed, and the feeling at both Ferrari and McLaren is that Honda could have handled the situation differently.

There is no evidence to suggest that Honda or Fry did anything improper, or that they knew about the existence of any Ferrari documents. Indeed, had they ultimately signed up Coughlan and Stepney's 'dream team,' possibly involving the extra four Ferrari stuff Stepney says were willing to come along too, the team could have been congratulated for a great coup.

It's only natural to look to Ferrari and McLaren to find people with the ability to improve your fortunes. Folk at other struggling teams might even have asked themselves - why didn't those guys call us?

Fry says that he was talking to lots of people, and some appointments have already been made and announced.

It's not really clear how far any discussions with Stepney/Coughlan proceeded or who else at Honda was in the loop and aware that the pair were in contact with the team.

The story continued to develop through the weekend, and on Sunday Stepney revealed to the Sunday Times that he had an earlier meeting with Fry, and had only taken Coughlan to a second one.

Later on Sunday morning, autosport.com caught up with Nick Fry. He confirmed that there was an earlier meeting with Stepney at the beginning of May, prior to the one that involved Coughlan on June 1, both having taken place at Heathrow airport.

Q: Can you clarify the situation with regard to Nigel Stepney and Mike Coughlan?

Nick Fry: "I think people love the conspiracy theories and whatever, but to me they were just two guys who wanted a job. The discussions we had was in line with similar discussions we had with lots of other people."

Q: In June, the 'white powder' stories came out. What was your reaction to that - did it make you suspicious or confused?

Fry: "Not so much suspicious or confused, but when that type of thing happens, then clearly you wonder what's been going on. It wasn't of any great concern to us, because as I say they were just two guys who'd come along for an interview.

"I did wonder whether there were other things going on. Certainly in America (during the US GP), when rumours started of the police getting involved, then it was looked on from our side more or less just of interest rather than anything else, because we didn't have any involvement beyond interviewing them."

Q: The big question is about what happened this week. When McLaren issued the statement on Tuesday afternoon that they suspended a senior staff member, what was your reaction to that? There are suggestions that you could have reacted quicker

Fry: "There's no reason. I think that's a ludicrous suggestion, probably put forward by McLaren. McLaren did something on Tuesday when I was on my way to Japan, as it happens. There was no reason at that point for me to ring up a competitor and say 'oh by the way, we just interviewed one of your chaps'.

"I mean, you interview people on the basis that it is confidential, and if people thought that you were instantly going to ring up their boss and say, 'oh by the way...', you'd be giving away a lot of trust there.

"Logistically, firstly McLaren hadn't mentioned Mike Coughlan's name, so it would have been bizarre for me to ring up and make that telephone call at that stage. Secondly, I was en route to Japan and was in Japan on Wednesday. When I got back on Thursday afternoon, which was 4:00 pm into Heathrow, my PR lady briefed me that from other sources - probably Nigel - mentioned had been made that I'd seen both of them. And at that point I phoned Martin Whitmarsh.

"That was around 5:00 pm on Thursday afternoon. I landed at 4:00 pm and within an hour, having been briefed, I rang Martin and said, 'It's now got this far, and Mike's name is clearly out in the open, just be aware that he did come and see me. Nothing was offered and nothing was accepted.'

"Then Friday morning I saw Ron and Jean, and we discussed it a bit further. To us it is an issue between McLaren and Ferrari, and if the FIA would like to see copies of emails from us, we're more than happy to provide them, on the basis that they are 'let's meet at 6:00 pm on blah, blah, blah'."

Q: I understand your position that you are an innocent party, haven't seen any information, and were just talking to them. But from the point of view of the situation that McLaren were put in, couldn't you have said something that limited the damage?

Fry: "Again, why would I want to do that? It was nothing to do with us."

Q: But in terms of your personal relationship with other team bosses, has that been damaged by all this?

Fry: "No, not at all. I'm not concerned in the least, and they would have behaved in exactly the same way. There's no reason to get involved until the point where it was clear that the person's name was out in the open. They wouldn't ring me up and say 'by the way, we've just interviewed one of your people'."

Q: But the fact that it had become a legal situation as of Tuesday made things different...

Fry: "A legal situation where McLaren hadn't named the person, and still hasn't, as I understand it."

Q: Well, you named him

Fry: "That's by the by. But all I've named is someone we've interviewed."